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Thread: Player Cards and racism issue

  1. #1
    Bones4War's Avatar
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    XFIRE ID: bones4war Steam ID: bones4war

    Player Cards and racism issue

    As some of you have already read in the Black Ops Ban List thread there is a debate over player cards and whether they should be banned outright for a potentially racist card or given a fair warning to change it.

    This would need to be a leadership decision of course on how to handle this but my personal thoughts on it are as follows. On one hadn I can see giving a player at least one warning to change it before they are banned. If I remember correctly we had a clan coming into the COD4 server with |KKK| tags. We asked them to change it and they claimed it stood for Kaptain Krunch Klan. Well naturally we weren't buying it. After telling them several times to change it and them ignoring our warnings we decided to outright ban anyone from that group who came into the server.

    I'm not sure if this. In this latest instance it was a swastika on the player card. Do we read into it that this person is making a racist/offensive statement or is it one made available in the game? Forgive me, it's been a while since I've played BO. I do feel that they should be given a warning to change it and if they don't then a ban would seem proper.

  2. #2

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    XFIRE ID: sw50caliber Steam ID: sw50caliber

    Re: Player Cards and racism issue

    I agree with @Bones4War on this that warnings should be given for items such as those with images or things the game allows. I understand people tend to do things in poor taste and sometimes people do not think before they do things. As always, unless it is blatant, I feel as an admin I should be warning first to allow for them to change it. I'd suggest a kick or warnings to get our point across then ban them if they don't want to comply. History is history, we learn from it. We can't change things in the past but we can make them better. I believe in treating others as I would like to be treated.

    My other though is if it is in the game then it is in there as the makers had made it. I'm not familiar as well, like Bones had said if you can upload or make them yourself? I don't feel though we need to be changing history and really accept what has happened in the past. I really hope no one is offended by every WWII game out there and every documentary out there on the history of this country, the world, and everything that has happened to the human race. As I said before we all need to learn from history and change so that the bad never happens again. We have to acknowledge everything in the past first to better ourselves.

    My 2 cents and lens as how I see my prospective world

  3. #3
    Max][mu$'s Avatar
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    PSN ID: dpgmaximus XFIRE ID: dpgmaximus Steam ID: dpgmaximus

    Re: Player Cards and racism issue

    Quote Originally Posted by 50CALIBER View Post
    I agree with @Bones4War on this that warnings should be given for items such as those with images or things the game allows. I understand people tend to do things in poor taste and sometimes people do not think before they do things. As always, unless it is blatant, I feel as an admin I should be warning first to allow for them to change it. I'd suggest a kick or warnings to get our point across then ban them if they don't want to comply. History is history, we learn from it. We can't change things in the past but we can make them better. I believe in treating others as I would like to be treated.

    My other though is if it is in the game then it is in there as the makers had made it. I'm not familiar as well, like Bones had said if you can upload or make them yourself? I don't feel though we need to be changing history and really accept what has happened in the past. I really hope no one is offended by every WWII game out there and every documentary out there on the history of this country, the world, and everything that has happened to the human race. As I said before we all need to learn from history and change so that the bad never happens again. We have to acknowledge everything in the past first to better ourselves.

    My 2 cents and lens as how I see my prospective world
    This is basically the way I look at it as well. For the record I also feel that we shouldn't go out of our way to get offended by certain things. After all, you can't see the guy's avatar on his gun unless you are spectating him.

    None the less, after giving this some thought after Loki messaged me, while the swastika doesn't personally offend me, this is Black Ops and not World at War. If it was World at War, I would look at it as something that was already built into the game which in my book, is fair game, but this is not the case. This person is deliberately using this avatar which is a custom avatar that they made which isn't built into the game.

    With that said, let's kindly ask the person to remove the avatar and give them a chance to respond. If they don't respond, give them a warning and then kick afterwards. If they come back and ask why, then mentioned you warned them and advise them of the reasoning behind it.

    People will say things like 'Oh well screw you DPG guys! You suck! You have double standards by allowing confederate flags on avatars, but not the swastika'. Those people can just deal with it. Myself, @ThaMule, @HiLLbiLLy, and many others do not look at the confederate flag as a symbol of racism. We look at it as a symbol of southern pride and history for that matter. "But, Maximus, you suck that offends me."

    Oh yea? Too bad, people who sag their pants offends me! How about that?! If it was possible to see that bull crap on our server, I would ban them for sagging their pants and showing their underwear...

    You get my point. Good topic. Complicated topic, but none the less there is your answer @Bones4War, @50CALIBER, and @rockit for reference.
    Last edited by Max][mu$; 01-22-2016 at 06:22 PM.

  4. #4
    Bones4War's Avatar
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    XFIRE ID: bones4war Steam ID: bones4war

    Re: Player Cards and racism issue

    Thanks @Max][mu$. That's more or less how I was viewing it. It's different from someone typing a blatantly racist comment or even a veiled one in the ingame chat where you know without a doubt their intention.

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    rockit's Avatar
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    XFIRE ID: 510Rockit

    Re: Player Cards and racism issue

    thanks. @maximus, @Bones4War, dont forget to unban the players that i banned for the rule1 "symbol"... there was only 2 of them.. thanks again.
    Last edited by rockit; 01-22-2016 at 08:58 PM.

  6. #6
    Xeno's Avatar
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    Steam ID: schony87

    Re: Player Cards and racism issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Max][mu$ View Post
    This is basically the way I look at it as well. For the record I also feel that we shouldn't go out of our way to get offended by certain things. After all, you can't see the guy's avatar on his gun unless you are spectating him.

    None the less, after giving this some thought after Loki messaged me, while the swastika doesn't personally offend me, this is Black Ops and not World at War. If it was World at War, I would look at it as something that was already built into the game which in my book, is fair game, but this is not the case. This person is deliberately using this avatar which is a custom avatar that they made which isn't built into the game.

    With that said, let's kindly ask the person to remove the avatar and give them a chance to respond. If they don't respond, give them a warning and then kick afterwards. If they come back and ask why, then mentioned you warned them and advise them of the reasoning behind it.

    People will say things like 'Oh well screw you DPG guys! You suck! You have double standards by allowing confederate flags on avatars, but not the swastika'. Those people can just deal with it. Myself, @ThaMule, @HiLLbiLLy, and many others do not look at the confederate flag as a symbol of racism. We look at it as a symbol of southern pride and history for that matter. "But, Maximus, you suck that offends me."

    Oh yea? Too bad, people who sag their pants offends me! How about that?! If it was possible to see that bull crap on our server, I would ban them for sagging their pants and showing their underwear...

    You get my point. Good topic. Complicated topic, but none the less there is your answer @Bones4War, @50CALIBER, and @rockit for reference.
    Well put and completely agree. Thanks for clearing this up for everyone.

    PS. Both have been unban. If you see them in game please advise them to change there avatar, thank you.
    Last edited by Xeno; 01-22-2016 at 09:38 PM. Reason: unban optiks and alexander

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    XFIRE ID: pacotito Steam ID: pacotito

    Re: Player Cards and racism issue

    My two cents...Yes there are previous meanings to the swastika but how many people know about that? Most people will assume nazi or "white power". 93.427% of people find this offensive. There are a lot of people that would be offended by that. Rightfully so. The Confederate flag? Not so much. It is history in our country. Regardless...I think this is a grey area we don't want to walk through. Are we going to go as deep as... "hey you're my n word with an a at that end" or "you're my n word with an er at the end" technically not racist to the people who are chatting. B3 with ban for that obviously...but was it a rule 1 violation??? I think that rule one is not something that should be blurred. If some one calls me a pollack because i'm polish should I be offended? Will 90% of people be offended? Rule 1 should be hard across the board not a judgement call.
    Last edited by pacotito; 01-23-2016 at 12:28 AM.

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    XFIRE ID: stewartquattro

    Re: Player Cards and racism issue

    You can't objectively enforce rule 1 as it centers around what is offensive, so you must set the threshold for rule 1 pretty far up the scale. Its a measurement based on feelings, and some have thicker skin than others.

    Also, if we start banning on rule 1 for the smallest of things that "might" be offensive to "some" people, we open up the rest to say "oh no he's offending me!" - you get the picture. I'll stop here before this reply turns into a perceived attack on the torn and damaged social fabric of the easily butthurt crybabies society seems full of today.

    If it's not crossing a very defined line, I say suck it up buttercup.

    That line being racial slurs, swearing (the 7 words you can't say on TV), and the like.

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    rockit's Avatar
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    XFIRE ID: 510Rockit

    Re: Player Cards and racism issue

    Here is my two cents. I've banned players who said the N word with an "a" at the end. guy comes in and said Whats up my N'a. knowing he wasnt a racist, just showing love to his peeps. now when a player comes in, showing the swastik flag, i can guarantee he is not showing love. its a sign of hate. but remember this.. Its only my opinion, 95% of ya'll will disagree. As for the confederat flag, doesnt have no meaning to me..only reminds me of @daisydukes. and its a good meaning! dukes and hazards. @pacotito "Rule 1 should be hard across the board not a judgement call." I agree on this, Thanks.

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    Dren's Avatar
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    Re: Player Cards and racism issue

    As I stated previously in the ban thread, and expanded upon by a few in here. It is our house, but we must be mindful to not go overboard with jumping the gun on every other player that does something we don't personally care for. Warn, kick, then ban. If the reputation for being quick to ban over a childish / bad taste prank starts spreading it makes maintaining / growing the population more difficult then it needs to be.

  11. #11
    Max][mu$'s Avatar
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    PSN ID: dpgmaximus XFIRE ID: dpgmaximus Steam ID: dpgmaximus

    Re: Player Cards and racism issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Dren View Post
    As I stated previously in the ban thread, and expanded upon by a few in here. It is our house, but we must be mindful to not go overboard with jumping the gun on every other player that does something we don't personally care for. Warn, kick, then ban. If the reputation for being quick to ban over a childish / bad taste prank starts spreading it makes maintaining / growing the population more difficult then it needs to be.
    My thoughts exactly. You are spot on.

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